International Space Station Program
Oral History Project
Edited Oral History Transcript

Robert D. Cabana
Interviewed by Rebecca Wright
Houston, TX – 15 July 2015

Wright: Today is July 15, 2015. This oral history session is being conducted with Robert Cabana in Houston, Texas, as part of the International Space Station Program Oral History Project. Interviewer is Rebecca Wright, assisted by Jennifer Ross-Nazzal and James Blair. Mr. Cabana currently serves as the director of the Kennedy Space Center [Florida], a position he has held since October 2008. In June 1985, he joined NASA as an astronaut candidate and, since that time, has flown on four successful Space Shuttle missions, as well as served in numerous management roles at the Johnson Space Center and for the agency.

Thanks for giving up your afternoon so that we can hear more about your history. Today, we would like for you to talk about your involvement with the International Space Station [ISS]. So if you would, tell us when it first began.

Cabana: Absolutely. Well, it first started, Rebecca, back when I was appointed chief of the Astronaut Office in July of 1994. As you know, the Space Station Program went through a transition and a redesign from Space Station Freedom to the International Space Station Program. At that time, we had just started the Shuttle-Mir Program. In fact in January of 1995, I made my first trip over to Star City [Russia], to check in on Norm [Norman E.] Thagard and Bonnie [J.] Dunbar, and see how training was going over there. So that was my first introduction to Russia and working with our future international partner. We would not have been successful on the International Space Station had we not done Shuttle-Mir with the Russians. It worked out extremely well.

So from that point on, working through the Shuttle-Mir Program, I established relationships with the Russians that became very valuable later on in the Space Station Program. By that time, we had gotten through the redesign, and we had moved forward. Toward the end of my tenure as chief astronaut, it came time to assign the first crews to the International Space Station, so the first four crews assigned to the Space Station were assigned during my tenure. And believe me, it was not easy to find folks who were willing to go off and be on the International Space Station, even though [it was] very exciting, groundbreaking. At the time, we were flying eight to nine Shuttle flights a year. Shuttle flights came much more frequently. There was an extreme demand for training time in Russia, having to learn the Russian language—over two years of training prior to that first mission [and] time away from home. It was not easy for those first crews, and it has gotten much better. Their training program was more aligned with how we did Shuttle-Mir. How they trained their crews for their Mir Space Station is how they intended to continue training for the International Space Station, and it significantly evolved over time.

Also, during that period, I was involved with many of the negotiations on the international agreements that we have in place on the Space Station, for instance, the crew code of conduct. That was no easy task, getting all the international partners to agree. This was an actual document that was essentially a treaty in many ways. I remember one negotiation specifically. We’re working through it all, to get everybody to agree, to get the Russians to agree and have a place on how we’re going forward—and the Japanese, of course, Canadians, European Space Agency. The Japanese politely say, “Yes,” but they really didn’t have the authority to say yes. They had to take it back to Japan and get their government, at the state level, to agree to what was being done. So then, if there are changes, it became extremely hard, because now, you’ve got to go back, and you’ve got to get the Russians on board and get everybody else on board. Those were some very interesting negotiations.

And then, at the end of my time as chief of the Astronaut Office, I was very fortunate to have director of Flight Crew Operations, Dave [David C.] Leetsma—my boss—assign me to be the commander of the first Space Station assembly mission. So I was able to continue working with all that I had done, from an international level, working with the partners, as the chief of the Astronaut Office—on crew assignments and working agreements and so on—to actually going over and training for the flight that put the first two pieces together. That was really special. Of course, it got delayed.

When you look at how the Space Station was done, there was a real push—after we won by only one vote in the House [of Representatives], to keep the Space Station alive—to get hardware on orbit and prove that we were moving forward. So as soon as the Functional Cargo Block [FGB] and Unity were ready, they wanted to get them up there, even though it was quite possible—and it ended up being the case—that the service module wasn’t quite ready to launch, so that we could get a crew up there. They wanted to get those first two modules up there and establish [the outpost], and we even slipped a year from when we were supposed to launch. We were supposed to launch in the end of ’97. We ended up launching in December of 1998.

I remember going over to Russia and training. It was so cool. You’ve got the docking system for the Space Station, same one we used on Shuttle-Mir, the APAS [Androgynous Peripheral Attach System]. We’re getting trained on it by the guy who designed it, [Vladimir Sergeevich] Syromyatnikov. In fact, I got a copy of his book on docking. It’s in Russian, but he autographed it to me. Here’s the guy that designed the system; it’s essentially the same one that was used on Apollo-Soyuz [Test Project], except the pedals, instead of going out, go in, and some other changes. To be trained on something by the designer that actually designed the system was pretty cool. So again, capitalized on those relationships that I had.

That was absolutely great, getting to work with Khrunichev [subcontractor for the FGB] on the FGB. Of course, the FGB, although it was built by Khrunichev in Russia, it was a module paid for by the United States, and Boeing was the contractor that we worked with. Ginger [Virginia A.] Barnes was the Boeing person in charge of that, and Ginger just retired from Boeing. She was working the core stage for the SLS [Space Launch System] at Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama]. To be able to see the FGB as it was being built, learn the systems—it was absolutely great.

I remember when Unity was just an empty aluminum shell at Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, when Boeing was building it there. Then, of course, it got shipped to the Cape [Canaveral, Florida] for final assembly and outfitting. There are so many things. I sit here, I just run through all this, and it all starts coming back.

Wright: That’s good.

Cabana: The Space Station was originally designed as ship and shoot: build a module, ship it to the Cape, and launch it to space. One of the things that we pushed for was called MEIT (Mission Essential Integration Test) at the Cape. Actually checking out the systems before we launched it, using the emulators. So we had an emulator of the FGB, and we did tons of testing, spent a lot of time out at Sonny Carter [Training Facility, Houston, Texas], testing software at the facility out there, spent a lot of time in the simulator. At that stage in the program, it was so basic. I want to say “archaic.” It wasn’t working. At that point in the program, they did not have the simulator up in Houston, where things actually worked, and you could train on it reliably. I spent a lot of time testing software out at Sonny Carter, and we said, “We really need to test the systems down at the Cape—once the vehicle is actually built, before we launch it—using emulators.” We did that, and we found all kinds of errors that were corrected in the software.

It was so neat, being down at the Cape, seeing the node go from this empty shell to becoming the spacecraft that we finally launched. I’ll never forget when we were on orbit, and we commanded to the Space Station, using IBM 760 XDs—the PGSC [Payload and General Support Computer] on the Orbiter plugged into the PCMMU [Pulse Code Modulation Master Unit] on the aft flight deck—to actually send the commands that brought the Space Station to life and got everything going.

Sergei [K.] Krikalev, I shared responsibility with him. That’s another story I’ll talk about—Sergei—but we had different places in the procedures where I sent the commands, and he watched to make sure we were doing it right. I let him send some commands, and I watched. Nobody was more surprised than me when we sent the commands and it actually worked. Everything worked perfectly. It was just phenomenal, and I attribute that to all the testing that we did on the ground. The essential integration tests were just critical. I can remember when I was chief of the Astronaut Office, getting that first flight ready to go. George [W.S.] Abbey was then Center Director at JSC, and things weren’t going well. The program was behind schedule, and George instituted what was an every-week, Saturday review. It started at eight o’clock in the morning. Everybody that was responsible for what was going on had to brief at that meeting, every Saturday, on how we were doing, what things weren’t right, what things were, why they were behind schedule, how they could get back on schedule, what issues they were having. That was, I think, critical to getting everything going.

Wright: What a great a learning opportunity, for you to hear all the behind-the-scenes information.

Cabana: Oh yes, and then I had to be there, because I was chief of the Astronaut Office. We needed to be represented, to see what was going on, so that worked out extremely well. Initially, we didn’t have a Russian on the crew. Then, it was decided that we should, and Sergei was going to be assigned to be one of the first crew actually living on the Space Station. Of course, he was on Expedition 1 with Bill [William M.] Shepherd and Yuri [P.] Gidzenko. So Sergei got added to the crew, and what a great addition. Just a phenomenal guy, still a very close friend, and a superb cosmonaut, so that worked out extremely well. I can go into the flight and talk more about that later. We want to talk about the Space Station. There are all kinds of things on that flight that were just memorable for me, but what a great mission.

Wright: And if you don’t mind—before we get off of it—will you just share, for just a few minutes, about opening that hatch and actually beginning the program.

Cabana: When we were on the ground before we left, the media kept asking, “Who’s going to be the first one in?” I wouldn’t tell anybody, and I didn’t even tell the crew. I knew who it was going to be. As we opened the hatch, I said, “Sergei, come here,” and I grabbed him. Every hatch, from the PMA [Pressurized Mating Adaptor] into the node into the PMA-2, the end of the FGB—every hatch that we opened, we opened the hatch, and he and I entered side by side. Because I said, “It’s going to be an International Space Station, it needs to be an international crew entering the modules together.” So I was the first American, and he was the first Russian in the International Space Station. There was no first person in. We went in side by side, to every module.

Wright: That’s a great picture of diplomacy.

Cabana: It worked out really well, and there’s all kinds of other stories I can talk about on that flight. It was amazing. It was just a dream flight, from start to finish, and the time that we were in the Space Station was just really, really special. So coming back from that flight, I had all my postflight duties, and then for a short period of time I was the deputy director of Flight Crew Operations.

I’ll back up just a little bit, because it leads into the story. Assigning the crews for those first four missions, I said, was extremely challenging. I went to some of the active duty military guys in the office, because I knew they weren’t going to say no to a Marine colonel. I gave folks a choice. Bill Shepherd ended up going from the program to be the commander of that first mission, and that was not assigned by me. That was already assigned. The second crew—Jim [James S.] Voss and Susan [J.] Helms—that was really hard for them. It was a real challenge, because all the training procedures weren’t in place. The flight kept slipping, so they spent a significant period of time training and preparing for that mission. I’ll never forget Susan Helms. She didn’t really want to do it, but she did. She just did a superb job. Afterwards, it just really made me feel good. She got back, and she said, “Thank you, Bob. What an awesome experience, and I appreciate the opportunity.” Jim Voss is one of my dear friends, and Jim just did a great job on that flight.

Increment-3, Ken [Kenneth D.] Bowersox was supposed to be on that flight. And for a number of reasons, Ken ended up not going on that flight, and Frank [L.] Culbertson—another classmate of mine from the [US] Naval Academy—ended up commanding Expedition 3. Then, the last crew I assigned was Expedition 4: Carl [E. Walz] and Danny [Daniel W.] Bursch. They just did an outstanding job, too. For those first crews, it really was hard. Things weren’t well established in Russia. We were still working on our relationship, working on how we trained, and it has gotten much better, over time.

Wright: For Expedition 3, Frank Culbertson also—it was a bridge from Shuttle-Mir¬ for him being the program manager. That worked out well for you on that. There was so much going on through those first missions. And then, when you came back, or when you were doing that—you then spent some time in Russia, yourself. Isn’t that correct?

Cabana: I spent a lot of time—as chief of the Astronaut Office—traveling back and forth. Then, when I got back off that last flight, I was deputy director of Flight Crew Ops for a little bit, and then, George asked me to go down and replace Frank as the manager for International Operations for the Space Station Program. At that point, I was nearing the end of my 30 years in the Marine Corps; you’re not going to be a flag officer, a general officer in the Marine Corps, at NASA. I would have had to have gone back to the Marine Corps, so it’s a mandatory retirement at 30 years. So I went ahead and retired a few months before 30 years and went directly to work for NASA. In September 2000, I was assigned to replace Frank, and I was the manager for International Operations, working for Tommy [Thomas W.] Holloway.

That was a great time. There was so much going on, just working all the agreements, working crew assignments. Tommy, he didn’t know what to expect at first. He had a feeling that, “Oh, you astronauts, you think you can come into these senior management positions and just move up without having requisite experience.” So I explained to Tommy all the jobs that I had had in the past that I felt qualified me, and I just said, “Well, I’ll show him.” I worked really hard, and Tommy is one of the finest gentlemen I’ve ever worked for. Tommy is the reason we have an International Space Station, I think. He brought a programmatic structure and fiscal responsibility to the Space Station Program, and actually kept it going and really made it successful. He had some huge challenges, but a great person, cared for people, technically proficient, the utmost in integrity, and I just really enjoyed working for him. And boy, he let me go and just do pretty much anything I wanted. I kept him informed and worked hard to make our relationship with our new international partners—all our agreements and our operations—move smoothly.

One of the things that he used to do—Tommy, he loved being involved technically. He didn’t like going to the Cape and just sitting around and not doing anything. All the flight readiness reviews, Tommy would go to the Cape, because that was a finite period of time. He had to ensure that things were technically right, but then, when it came launch time, a lot of times, Tommy wouldn’t go to the launch, because they’d slip. He had more important work to do, so he’d send me to the launch. If it slipped, I’d be there, and he’d be back in Houston working. So that was always interesting. I did that for almost a year, and George wanted me to go over to Russia and run our operations in Russia and replace Mike [Michael A.] Baker.

I said, “I’ll do that, but I really think I shouldn’t just report to the Center Director.” That’s the way it had been set up. “It really ought to be the Center and the ISS Program, and I think Tommy should have a role in this, also.” He said, “I agree.” I talked to Tommy, and I guess George had already talked to him, but Tommy said, “Yes, this is good.” We set out what was expected and how we were going to do everything. Then, I said, “Tommy, if I’m going to do this—I’ve picked up a little Russian, traveling back and forth—I really need full-time Russian language training if I’m going to pack up and move to Russia.” He said, “Absolutely, but there’s a few things I’d like you to get done first, before you go off and do that.” “Okay.”

So I was coming to work by six o’clock every morning, working in the Space Station Program to eight, taking Russian language from eight to noon, and then working in the Space Station Program from noon to six, and then studying my Russian for the next day, getting my homework done. He never did let me go. I did that the entire time until it was time to pack up and move to Russia. Tony [Anthony J.] Vanchu, my Russian language instructor, was so proud of me, because I was the first student that got through the whole book on Russian. Then, when I got to Russia, I continued to take Russian language from Vladimir Sergeivich Baldushkin [phonetic]. Dr. Baldushkin taught at Moscow [State] University; he was my tutor, and he was doing this in his spare time, to make extra money. He had his books, and he had his way of teaching foreigners how to speak Russian. Once a week, I was taking classes from him, so that was still interesting. So I got pretty good at Russian while I was [in Russia]—unfortunately, if you don’t use it, you lose it, and I’ve lost a lot of what I had.

That was absolutely just a great year and a half that I spent over in Russia. Again, having those established relationships with those folks really helped, working all the technical issues, the crew issues. We had a team over there, working in Moscow, in the Russian Mission Control at TsUP, and they were over there on TDY [Tour of Duty]. And then, I had a small team that was PCS [Permanent Change of State], and we were the direct interface.

Over in Russia, the Russians work from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., every day. It worked out well. I’d get to my office at 9:00 a.m. It was right in the building where Roscosmos has their headquarters. We had a separate little office suite on the first floor, off in a corner, where it was not accessible to the rest of the building. I’d work there from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., and then I’d go home. And I had an office in—we were in a hotel apartment—the Volga Hotel. It was a furnished three-bedroom apartment, so one of the bedrooms was my office. Because of the nine-hour time difference, I’d get home at 6:00 p.m., and then it was Houston work time, so I’d work to midnight, one o’clock in the morning or whatever. I’d take time out to do dinner and stuff like that, but then, there was all the interface with the folks back in Houston.

I truly, truly enjoyed my time over there, working for Tommy. Toward the end of that time, Tommy decided it was time to retire, and Bill [William H.] Gerstenmaier was his deputy. Bill became the ISS Program Manager, and he asked me to come back and be his deputy, so I left Russia and moved back to the States. And for all of about three months, I was the deputy program manager in the Space Station Program. Then, Beak, Jeff [Jefferson Davis] Howell, who was the Center Director at the time, asked me to be the director of Flight Crew Operations. So that was my time in the Space Station Program, working as the manager for International Operations, Space Station operations in Moscow, and then, for a very brief time, as the deputy program manager. I continued to work closely with the program while I was the director of Flight Crew Operations, because of our crew involvement. And of